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	<title>Comments on: The (Dead)Beat Generation</title>
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	<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id999-the-deadbeat-generation.html</link>
	<description>The offbeat personal finance blog for responsible people.</description>
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		<title>By: Wojciech Kulicki</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id999-the-deadbeat-generation.html#comment-2089</link>
		<dc:creator>Wojciech Kulicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=999#comment-2089</guid>
		<description>Uuu...I can&#039;t wait for the comments! :) Flexo had the strategic default discussion about a year ago, and it still gets people ranting from both sides of the fence to this day.

I&#039;ve about talked this topic to death, but here&#039;s my 2 cents:

I believe in personal responsibility and the sum of individual actions affecting the whole. However, people will always look out for #1. In most cases, that means they will choose to foreclose if it benefits them in the short term or the long term. Most people will consider their social and contractual obligations LAST over how they can &quot;get out of&quot; a bad choice they made...or just hurt feelings about &quot;lost money&quot; in equity.

Blame the banks, blame your neighbor, whoever else you want...it all comes down to looking out for your best interests. And that, my friends, is human nature...

What would I do? Eh...don&#039;t really know...I still rent. :)
.-= Wojciech Kulicki´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FiscalFizzle/~3/7EVJY79Gqas/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Socially Responsible Investment and an Improving Market&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uuu&#8230;I can&#8217;t wait for the comments! <img src='http://lenpenzo.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Flexo had the strategic default discussion about a year ago, and it still gets people ranting from both sides of the fence to this day.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve about talked this topic to death, but here&#8217;s my 2 cents:</p>
<p>I believe in personal responsibility and the sum of individual actions affecting the whole. However, people will always look out for #1. In most cases, that means they will choose to foreclose if it benefits them in the short term or the long term. Most people will consider their social and contractual obligations LAST over how they can &#8220;get out of&#8221; a bad choice they made&#8230;or just hurt feelings about &#8220;lost money&#8221; in equity.</p>
<p>Blame the banks, blame your neighbor, whoever else you want&#8230;it all comes down to looking out for your best interests. And that, my friends, is human nature&#8230;</p>
<p>What would I do? Eh&#8230;don&#8217;t really know&#8230;I still rent. <img src='http://lenpenzo.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
.-= Wojciech Kulicki´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FiscalFizzle/~3/7EVJY79Gqas/" rel="nofollow">Socially Responsible Investment and an Improving Market</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin@OutOfYourRut</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id999-the-deadbeat-generation.html#comment-2090</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin@OutOfYourRut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=999#comment-2090</guid>
		<description>The fact that so many people are just walking on their mortgages confirms that for many of them, the &quot;beloved home&quot; was really little more than an investment.  That&#039;s really the main problem in the housing market right now, there are too many who bought--and overbought--for the wrong reasons.  Unfortunately, that pattern also pushed prices to unsustainable levels that even those who bought for the right reasons are struggling to deal with.

Of course, the banks DO get plenty of blame here, after all, it was their aggressive, accomodating lending that made it possible for people to purchase a property for several times a buyers annual income, and to do so with just a few thousand up front.  Who didn&#039;t see this coming???
.-= Kevin@OutOfYourRut´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://outofyourrut.com/blog/2010/03/09/why-it-might-be-better-to-owe-on-your-state-income-tax-return/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why It Might Be Better to OWE on Your State Income Tax Return&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that so many people are just walking on their mortgages confirms that for many of them, the &#8220;beloved home&#8221; was really little more than an investment.  That&#8217;s really the main problem in the housing market right now, there are too many who bought&#8211;and overbought&#8211;for the wrong reasons.  Unfortunately, that pattern also pushed prices to unsustainable levels that even those who bought for the right reasons are struggling to deal with.</p>
<p>Of course, the banks DO get plenty of blame here, after all, it was their aggressive, accomodating lending that made it possible for people to purchase a property for several times a buyers annual income, and to do so with just a few thousand up front.  Who didn&#8217;t see this coming???<br />
.-= Kevin@OutOfYourRut´s last blog ..<a href="http://outofyourrut.com/blog/2010/03/09/why-it-might-be-better-to-owe-on-your-state-income-tax-return/" rel="nofollow">Why It Might Be Better to OWE on Your State Income Tax Return</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin@OutOfYourRut</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id999-the-deadbeat-generation.html#comment-2091</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin@OutOfYourRut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=999#comment-2091</guid>
		<description>Am I violating protocol by making two successive comments?

Wojciech&#039;s comment hit at the same time as mine, and I have some thoughts on it...

Wojciech--I agree with what you say, but I think what we&#039;re seeing is the herd mentality playing out.  People flocked to get in on the impossibly good deal of buying, now they&#039;re flocking to get out of what&#039;s turned out to be, in hindsight only, a certified nightmare. 

This is the very definition of a mania! Mindless entry to the game, followed by a desperate lunge for the door on the back end. I&#039;m not justifying what anyone is doing, I&#039;m only pointing out that we gain courage and cover when we&#039;re moving with a crowd. Only four years ago, walking away on &quot;The American Dream&quot; was viewed like the scarlett letter--now it&#039;s the new in-thing.

As much as we like to pat ourselves on our collective backs for our &quot;brilliant&quot; knowledge and technology, we still have more in common with lemmings than we&#039;re comfortable admitting.
.-= Kevin@OutOfYourRut´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://outofyourrut.com/blog/2010/03/09/why-it-might-be-better-to-owe-on-your-state-income-tax-return/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Why It Might Be Better to OWE on Your State Income Tax Return&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I violating protocol by making two successive comments?</p>
<p>Wojciech&#8217;s comment hit at the same time as mine, and I have some thoughts on it&#8230;</p>
<p>Wojciech&#8211;I agree with what you say, but I think what we&#8217;re seeing is the herd mentality playing out.  People flocked to get in on the impossibly good deal of buying, now they&#8217;re flocking to get out of what&#8217;s turned out to be, in hindsight only, a certified nightmare. </p>
<p>This is the very definition of a mania! Mindless entry to the game, followed by a desperate lunge for the door on the back end. I&#8217;m not justifying what anyone is doing, I&#8217;m only pointing out that we gain courage and cover when we&#8217;re moving with a crowd. Only four years ago, walking away on &#8220;The American Dream&#8221; was viewed like the scarlett letter&#8211;now it&#8217;s the new in-thing.</p>
<p>As much as we like to pat ourselves on our collective backs for our &#8220;brilliant&#8221; knowledge and technology, we still have more in common with lemmings than we&#8217;re comfortable admitting.<br />
.-= Kevin@OutOfYourRut´s last blog ..<a href="http://outofyourrut.com/blog/2010/03/09/why-it-might-be-better-to-owe-on-your-state-income-tax-return/" rel="nofollow">Why It Might Be Better to OWE on Your State Income Tax Return</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Len Penzo</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id999-the-deadbeat-generation.html#comment-2092</link>
		<dc:creator>Len Penzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=999#comment-2092</guid>
		<description>I can definitely speak from experience on this topic.   I bought my first house in 1990 at the top of the real estate market in Southern California - I could not have timed it any better!  LOL   I was upside down on my mortgage for seven long years.  To make matters worse, the house I lived in was about 50 yards from a set of railroad tracks that saw very heavy freight and commuter train traffic.  

Although I wanted to move I couldn&#039;t afford to come up with the extra money I would have needed to pay the bank.   So I sucked it up and made the best of a bad situation until I could finally sell the house in 1997 without me taking a loss.

A lot of you are probably saying I&#039;m a sucker.  Maybe so, but I felt at the time - and still feel to this day - that the strategic default is unethical and it reflects poorly on an individual&#039;s character.  (That ought to tick off a few people.)

Being upside down on a house isn&#039;t the end of the world.  You still get use of the house, for example.  

I&#039;ll argue that most people who have no problem with the strategic default also buy in to the entitlement mentality that currently pervades this country: &quot;I bought a home and therefore I am entitled to make an immediate profit off that home.&quot;  Those that don&#039;t end up feeling as if they were &quot;misled&quot; by the banks that loaned them the money - which justifies screwing the banks.

Total BS.  

Thanks for the comments, Kevin and Wojo!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can definitely speak from experience on this topic.   I bought my first house in 1990 at the top of the real estate market in Southern California &#8211; I could not have timed it any better!  LOL   I was upside down on my mortgage for seven long years.  To make matters worse, the house I lived in was about 50 yards from a set of railroad tracks that saw very heavy freight and commuter train traffic.  </p>
<p>Although I wanted to move I couldn&#8217;t afford to come up with the extra money I would have needed to pay the bank.   So I sucked it up and made the best of a bad situation until I could finally sell the house in 1997 without me taking a loss.</p>
<p>A lot of you are probably saying I&#8217;m a sucker.  Maybe so, but I felt at the time &#8211; and still feel to this day &#8211; that the strategic default is unethical and it reflects poorly on an individual&#8217;s character.  (That ought to tick off a few people.)</p>
<p>Being upside down on a house isn&#8217;t the end of the world.  You still get use of the house, for example.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ll argue that most people who have no problem with the strategic default also buy in to the entitlement mentality that currently pervades this country: &#8220;I bought a home and therefore I am entitled to make an immediate profit off that home.&#8221;  Those that don&#8217;t end up feeling as if they were &#8220;misled&#8221; by the banks that loaned them the money &#8211; which justifies screwing the banks.</p>
<p>Total BS.  </p>
<p>Thanks for the comments, Kevin and Wojo!</p>
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		<title>By: Wojciech Kulicki</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id999-the-deadbeat-generation.html#comment-2093</link>
		<dc:creator>Wojciech Kulicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=999#comment-2093</guid>
		<description>Good point, Kevin. I think you&#039;re in the clear about protocol, by the way :)

It really IS the new &quot;in&quot; thing to foreclose. I wrote on my blog a few weeks back that many people wear it as a &quot;badge of honor,&quot; as if they&#039;ve been to some war zone and back and emerged bruised, but alive. They seek out others who have been through the same experience to create camaraderie. 

Seems like the right way to go is always AWAY from what everyone else is doing...

So if everyone is buying up these cheap houses right now, are we too late? Or too early? Hmm...
.-= Wojciech Kulicki´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FiscalFizzle/~3/SDU5muXwrq0/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Somebody, Please Take My Money&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point, Kevin. I think you&#8217;re in the clear about protocol, by the way <img src='http://lenpenzo.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It really IS the new &#8220;in&#8221; thing to foreclose. I wrote on my blog a few weeks back that many people wear it as a &#8220;badge of honor,&#8221; as if they&#8217;ve been to some war zone and back and emerged bruised, but alive. They seek out others who have been through the same experience to create camaraderie. </p>
<p>Seems like the right way to go is always AWAY from what everyone else is doing&#8230;</p>
<p>So if everyone is buying up these cheap houses right now, are we too late? Or too early? Hmm&#8230;<br />
.-= Wojciech Kulicki´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FiscalFizzle/~3/SDU5muXwrq0/" rel="nofollow">Somebody, Please Take My Money</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Wojciech Kulicki</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id999-the-deadbeat-generation.html#comment-2094</link>
		<dc:creator>Wojciech Kulicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=999#comment-2094</guid>
		<description>Okay, now I&#039;m going to violate protocol with 2 comments! :) Len&#039;s got me thinking about the whole idea of entitlement, but more specifically about how foreclosure is viewed in other parts of the world. 

The U.S. strikes me as very unique in our foreclosure process...can anyone speak to how things are in the rest of the world? From what I have heard, it&#039;s much harder to just &quot;walk away&quot; from your loan obligations in other countries.
.-= Wojciech Kulicki´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FiscalFizzle/~3/Z9cCcgdVKHU/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Baby Expense Report: Month 2&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, now I&#8217;m going to violate protocol with 2 comments! <img src='http://lenpenzo.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Len&#8217;s got me thinking about the whole idea of entitlement, but more specifically about how foreclosure is viewed in other parts of the world. </p>
<p>The U.S. strikes me as very unique in our foreclosure process&#8230;can anyone speak to how things are in the rest of the world? From what I have heard, it&#8217;s much harder to just &#8220;walk away&#8221; from your loan obligations in other countries.<br />
.-= Wojciech Kulicki´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/FiscalFizzle/~3/Z9cCcgdVKHU/" rel="nofollow">Baby Expense Report: Month 2</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id999-the-deadbeat-generation.html#comment-2095</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=999#comment-2095</guid>
		<description>I think it comes down to the situation. For example, I have a relative that lived in Michigan and worked as an engineer for a auto parts manufacturer. Needless to say, he was laid off. He couldn&#039;t find work in the area and needed to move where the jobs were. He found a job in NC and ended up just handing over the keys to the place in MI. He tried everything to get it sold (short sale, etc.) but he just couldn&#039;t find a buyer. 

I don&#039;t look down upon him for doing what he did. He did what was best for his family and he learned from his mistake. So, I guess I am saying that it just depends on the situation. If you are just tired of making the payments and just not getting anywhere, suck it up and make the payments. Don&#039;t walk away just because it&#039;s easy. But if handing over the keys is the last resort to protect your family, by all means.

P.S. You need the subscribe to comments plug-in!
.-= Adam´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/YourMoneyRelationship/~3/1qKtwgvAkzI/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Packing Lunch For Work Just Got Easier&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it comes down to the situation. For example, I have a relative that lived in Michigan and worked as an engineer for a auto parts manufacturer. Needless to say, he was laid off. He couldn&#8217;t find work in the area and needed to move where the jobs were. He found a job in NC and ended up just handing over the keys to the place in MI. He tried everything to get it sold (short sale, etc.) but he just couldn&#8217;t find a buyer. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t look down upon him for doing what he did. He did what was best for his family and he learned from his mistake. So, I guess I am saying that it just depends on the situation. If you are just tired of making the payments and just not getting anywhere, suck it up and make the payments. Don&#8217;t walk away just because it&#8217;s easy. But if handing over the keys is the last resort to protect your family, by all means.</p>
<p>P.S. You need the subscribe to comments plug-in!<br />
.-= Adam´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/YourMoneyRelationship/~3/1qKtwgvAkzI/" rel="nofollow">Packing Lunch For Work Just Got Easier</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Credit Card</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id999-the-deadbeat-generation.html#comment-2096</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Credit Card</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=999#comment-2096</guid>
		<description>This is a side track - but this is a wonderful article in the Journal about Ireland having to have severe budget cuts. Civil servants (govt employees in our language) has to take pay cuts..

This is the pain you have to suffer when you borrow too much to play musical chairs and the music stops

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704486504575097672075207734.html?mod=WSJ_hp_editorsPicks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a side track &#8211; but this is a wonderful article in the Journal about Ireland having to have severe budget cuts. Civil servants (govt employees in our language) has to take pay cuts..</p>
<p>This is the pain you have to suffer when you borrow too much to play musical chairs and the music stops</p>
<p><a href="http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704486504575097672075207734.html?mod=WSJ_hp_editorsPicks" rel="nofollow">http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704486504575097672075207734.html?mod=WSJ_hp_editorsPicks</a></p>
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		<title>By: 2 Cents @ Balance Junkie</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id999-the-deadbeat-generation.html#comment-2097</link>
		<dc:creator>2 Cents @ Balance Junkie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=999#comment-2097</guid>
		<description>Here in Canada, mortgage loans are recourse. You can&#039;t just walk away. If you can&#039;t pay your mortgage, the bank sells the house under power of sale and you are still responsible for the difference. Further, if you don&#039;t have 20% to put down, you pay extra for mortgage insurance.
.-= 2 Cents @ Balance Junkie´s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BalanceJunkie/~3/Rumz6OikOig/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Should You Take Money Out of RRSPs to Pay Off Debt?&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here in Canada, mortgage loans are recourse. You can&#8217;t just walk away. If you can&#8217;t pay your mortgage, the bank sells the house under power of sale and you are still responsible for the difference. Further, if you don&#8217;t have 20% to put down, you pay extra for mortgage insurance.<br />
.-= 2 Cents @ Balance Junkie´s last blog ..<a href="http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/BalanceJunkie/~3/Rumz6OikOig/" rel="nofollow">Should You Take Money Out of RRSPs to Pay Off Debt?</a> =-.</p>
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		<title>By: Mr Credit Card</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id999-the-deadbeat-generation.html#comment-2098</link>
		<dc:creator>Mr Credit Card</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=999#comment-2098</guid>
		<description>2 cents - good for canada - at least you folks did not get into this mess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2 cents &#8211; good for canada &#8211; at least you folks did not get into this mess.</p>
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