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	<title>Comments on: It’s Time Unemployed People Start Working For Free</title>
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	<description>The offbeat personal finance blog for responsible people.</description>
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		<title>By: Len Penzo</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id793-its-time-unemployed-people-start-working-for-free.html#comment-140693</link>
		<dc:creator>Len Penzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 03:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=793#comment-140693</guid>
		<description>1. Citing my ample salary as the reason why I can save money is a strawman argument. I fully supported myself as a college student (and paid for my entire education without the benefits of any loans) on my earnings as a teenager and jobs I worked while in school. The key is, simply, living below your means. It&#039;s done all the time by people who are serious about it and refuse to make excuses. Believe it or not, I get letters from people with families who are making a living on $25k per year, have an emergency fund, AND are still saving for their retirement. Not a lot, but over time it adds up. You&#039;re probably scratching your head, thinking it&#039;s impossible, but it&#039;s not. These folks believe in being personally responsible and reliant on no one, as should everyone. If that seems callous to you, so be it. If you don&#039;t like the message, try finding a blog that believes in making excuses for everyone&#039;s money problems. I preach the same story to my 12 and 14 year old kids. (But whether or not the message will sink in before they leave the nest will be up to them.)

2. Really? Come on, now. That&#039;s just more excuses. If that was me, I would get a temporary lower-paying job (even if it meant I had to flip burgers) to fill the gap until I found another higher paying job. What&#039;s the problem with that? I know a lot of people think some jobs are beneath them, but personally responsible folk don&#039;t. No, really. We don&#039;t. For a time, my Dad worked three jobs to make ends meet so my mom could stay home with us kids. He had his regular job, he worked behind the counter of a liquor store, and he moonlighted as janitor. When you respect yourself, no job is beneath you. A lot of people today have the opposite view. Why? Because the government is there handing out two years of unemployment benefits. Why work as a janitor to put food in your belly, if Uncle Sam is going to hand out free money. If that sounds callous too, so be it.

If you reread my post, I didn&#039;t advocate eliminating unemployment benefits. I suggested that the term should be reduced -- preferably back to what they were before America became a nanny state (26 weeks).

You sound a bit jaded over the fact that I have lived my life in a fiscally sound and responsible manner. And you&#039;re darn right I&#039;m outraged. I&#039;ve sacrificed my whole life to be in the position I&#039;m in, while the funemployed (not the unemployed, the FUNEMPLOYED) are enjoying themselves for 2 whole years on the public dole. 

Why do you keep making excuses for them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. Citing my ample salary as the reason why I can save money is a strawman argument. I fully supported myself as a college student (and paid for my entire education without the benefits of any loans) on my earnings as a teenager and jobs I worked while in school. The key is, simply, living below your means. It&#8217;s done all the time by people who are serious about it and refuse to make excuses. Believe it or not, I get letters from people with families who are making a living on $25k per year, have an emergency fund, AND are still saving for their retirement. Not a lot, but over time it adds up. You&#8217;re probably scratching your head, thinking it&#8217;s impossible, but it&#8217;s not. These folks believe in being personally responsible and reliant on no one, as should everyone. If that seems callous to you, so be it. If you don&#8217;t like the message, try finding a blog that believes in making excuses for everyone&#8217;s money problems. I preach the same story to my 12 and 14 year old kids. (But whether or not the message will sink in before they leave the nest will be up to them.)</p>
<p>2. Really? Come on, now. That&#8217;s just more excuses. If that was me, I would get a temporary lower-paying job (even if it meant I had to flip burgers) to fill the gap until I found another higher paying job. What&#8217;s the problem with that? I know a lot of people think some jobs are beneath them, but personally responsible folk don&#8217;t. No, really. We don&#8217;t. For a time, my Dad worked three jobs to make ends meet so my mom could stay home with us kids. He had his regular job, he worked behind the counter of a liquor store, and he moonlighted as janitor. When you respect yourself, no job is beneath you. A lot of people today have the opposite view. Why? Because the government is there handing out two years of unemployment benefits. Why work as a janitor to put food in your belly, if Uncle Sam is going to hand out free money. If that sounds callous too, so be it.</p>
<p>If you reread my post, I didn&#8217;t advocate eliminating unemployment benefits. I suggested that the term should be reduced &#8212; preferably back to what they were before America became a nanny state (26 weeks).</p>
<p>You sound a bit jaded over the fact that I have lived my life in a fiscally sound and responsible manner. And you&#8217;re darn right I&#8217;m outraged. I&#8217;ve sacrificed my whole life to be in the position I&#8217;m in, while the funemployed (not the unemployed, the FUNEMPLOYED) are enjoying themselves for 2 whole years on the public dole. </p>
<p>Why do you keep making excuses for them?</p>
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		<title>By: A day in someone else's shoes</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id793-its-time-unemployed-people-start-working-for-free.html#comment-140139</link>
		<dc:creator>A day in someone else's shoes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Nov 2011 03:35:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=793#comment-140139</guid>
		<description>It seems that your rationale is based on the fact that you work as an aerospace engineer and have made great efforts to live below your means for a number of years in order to have a safety net in case  of the unforeseen: unemployment, health issues, etc. 

You cite your ability to store up a nest egg with pride and allude to the fact that others that are not in the same situation (2 years of savings)are there because they have chosen to live irresponsible and above their means. 

These factors affect our safety net:
1. Your salary. If you are not an Aerospace engineer and living just above minimum wage - working overtime just to pay your basic bills - where is there an opportunity to save as much as you did? How can these people live below their &quot;means&quot; when their &quot;means&quot; are too small to measure to begin with? Your logic is not logical and your remarks are callous in nature.

2. Time: you have been lucky enough to have many years to store up this nest egg. It takes time to do that. What if you have been out of school for 2 years and have lived below your means to save money, but haven&#039;t had time for your nest egg to build up? This often happens to younger employees that are competing for higher paying jobs in our unstable market with those with more experience.

To come up with a logical argument based on one scenario (YOURS) and then applying it to everyone else&#039;s situation is truly idiotic. You are missing so many pieces in your perspective of reality.

This blog seems to be a platform for you to spew off what a remarkable, self-sustaining person you are and how outraged you are at those funemployed out there who are taking advantage of the tax payers. 

yes, there are those who take advantage of the system. But if it is as great an issue as you seem to think, then perhaps the system that seems to be giving out the money(according to you) to the funemployed needs to be fixed, not the length of benefits. You are throwing out the baby with the bath water!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that your rationale is based on the fact that you work as an aerospace engineer and have made great efforts to live below your means for a number of years in order to have a safety net in case  of the unforeseen: unemployment, health issues, etc. </p>
<p>You cite your ability to store up a nest egg with pride and allude to the fact that others that are not in the same situation (2 years of savings)are there because they have chosen to live irresponsible and above their means. </p>
<p>These factors affect our safety net:<br />
1. Your salary. If you are not an Aerospace engineer and living just above minimum wage &#8211; working overtime just to pay your basic bills &#8211; where is there an opportunity to save as much as you did? How can these people live below their &#8220;means&#8221; when their &#8220;means&#8221; are too small to measure to begin with? Your logic is not logical and your remarks are callous in nature.</p>
<p>2. Time: you have been lucky enough to have many years to store up this nest egg. It takes time to do that. What if you have been out of school for 2 years and have lived below your means to save money, but haven&#8217;t had time for your nest egg to build up? This often happens to younger employees that are competing for higher paying jobs in our unstable market with those with more experience.</p>
<p>To come up with a logical argument based on one scenario (YOURS) and then applying it to everyone else&#8217;s situation is truly idiotic. You are missing so many pieces in your perspective of reality.</p>
<p>This blog seems to be a platform for you to spew off what a remarkable, self-sustaining person you are and how outraged you are at those funemployed out there who are taking advantage of the tax payers. </p>
<p>yes, there are those who take advantage of the system. But if it is as great an issue as you seem to think, then perhaps the system that seems to be giving out the money(according to you) to the funemployed needs to be fixed, not the length of benefits. You are throwing out the baby with the bath water!</p>
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		<title>By: Len Penzo</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id793-its-time-unemployed-people-start-working-for-free.html#comment-62947</link>
		<dc:creator>Len Penzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 20:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=793#comment-62947</guid>
		<description>Take a deep breath and try not to get so emotional here; you&#039;re completely mischaracterizing the point of this piece. I never said people on unemployment should feel guilty. I&#039;m railing against those who abuse the system (i.e., the funemployed).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Take a deep breath and try not to get so emotional here; you&#8217;re completely mischaracterizing the point of this piece. I never said people on unemployment should feel guilty. I&#8217;m railing against those who abuse the system (i.e., the funemployed).</p>
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		<title>By: grave</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id793-its-time-unemployed-people-start-working-for-free.html#comment-61957</link>
		<dc:creator>grave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jul 2011 18:45:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=793#comment-61957</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t believe you, if you became unemployed you would collect your unemployment and you deep down inside know it is true.  People on unemployment should not feel guilty collecting since most are victims of outsourcing done by giant corp. to save themselves some cash. Why pay americans when they can have slaves over seas, right?. You should be writing articles about the hypocritical bail outs of banks and real estate by the government. You have no problem with them throwing tax payer money around than,right? and as far as the funemployed you are talking about, I have met a lot of unemployed people and people collecting, nobody looks like they are having fun to me? do you think people enjoy not knowing where their next source of income is coming from and sending out resumes tirelessly and having no feedback? being at the wims of some moody politians and whatever they feel like voting for? You need to pray to jesus and thank him for blessing you with a good career and pray for forgiveness for judging your neighbors many of whom you do not even know sir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t believe you, if you became unemployed you would collect your unemployment and you deep down inside know it is true.  People on unemployment should not feel guilty collecting since most are victims of outsourcing done by giant corp. to save themselves some cash. Why pay americans when they can have slaves over seas, right?. You should be writing articles about the hypocritical bail outs of banks and real estate by the government. You have no problem with them throwing tax payer money around than,right? and as far as the funemployed you are talking about, I have met a lot of unemployed people and people collecting, nobody looks like they are having fun to me? do you think people enjoy not knowing where their next source of income is coming from and sending out resumes tirelessly and having no feedback? being at the wims of some moody politians and whatever they feel like voting for? You need to pray to jesus and thank him for blessing you with a good career and pray for forgiveness for judging your neighbors many of whom you do not even know sir.</p>
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		<title>By: Financial Samurai</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id793-its-time-unemployed-people-start-working-for-free.html#comment-1095</link>
		<dc:creator>Financial Samurai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=793#comment-1095</guid>
		<description>Len, sorry, but I&#039;m opposed to your statement.

If the government can spend $45 billion bailing out one company (Citibank), and watch them pay their star trader $100 million, the government should certainly help out millions of people for only $70 billion by extending unemployment benefits.

It&#039;s so easy to tell people who are unemployed to just work.  People just dont know how DIFFICULT it is, until you walk in their own shoes.

Unemployed folks, stand strong.  

FS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Len, sorry, but I&#8217;m opposed to your statement.</p>
<p>If the government can spend $45 billion bailing out one company (Citibank), and watch them pay their star trader $100 million, the government should certainly help out millions of people for only $70 billion by extending unemployment benefits.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s so easy to tell people who are unemployed to just work.  People just dont know how DIFFICULT it is, until you walk in their own shoes.</p>
<p>Unemployed folks, stand strong.  </p>
<p>FS</p>
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		<title>By: Ashley</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id793-its-time-unemployed-people-start-working-for-free.html#comment-1096</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=793#comment-1096</guid>
		<description>Enjoyed the post and mostly agree with what you&#039;ve said. Also I think its important to point out that you are not saying people who actively make a serious effort to find a job should not receive the extension. 

Your post is directed to those that refuse to look for a job because they enjoy getting &quot;free&quot; money&quot;. I completely agree that they should be held to higher standards in their job search efforts.

I have a friend like the guy you mentioned in your post. She&#039;s mid-20&#039;s, used to work in sales, has been unemployed more than half the year and still drinks every single night and sleeps in until about 1pm each day. 

She collects enough money from unemployment to pay all her living expenses and therefore will not be motivated to seriously look for a job until her unemployment runs out. Her benefits being extended would only guarantee that she&#039;d remain unemployed for an additional 14 weeks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enjoyed the post and mostly agree with what you&#8217;ve said. Also I think its important to point out that you are not saying people who actively make a serious effort to find a job should not receive the extension. </p>
<p>Your post is directed to those that refuse to look for a job because they enjoy getting &#8220;free&#8221; money&#8221;. I completely agree that they should be held to higher standards in their job search efforts.</p>
<p>I have a friend like the guy you mentioned in your post. She&#8217;s mid-20&#8242;s, used to work in sales, has been unemployed more than half the year and still drinks every single night and sleeps in until about 1pm each day. </p>
<p>She collects enough money from unemployment to pay all her living expenses and therefore will not be motivated to seriously look for a job until her unemployment runs out. Her benefits being extended would only guarantee that she&#8217;d remain unemployed for an additional 14 weeks.</p>
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		<title>By: Financial Samurai</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id793-its-time-unemployed-people-start-working-for-free.html#comment-1097</link>
		<dc:creator>Financial Samurai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=793#comment-1097</guid>
		<description>Ashley - Do you think if your friend had a choice of working for more money or being unemployed, she&#039;d still choose unemployment?  I don&#039;t think so.

They may outwardly show &quot;fun&quot; and &quot;joy&quot;, but I bet that&#039;s more of them trying to make the best of the situation, and not purposefully trying to &quot;game&quot; the system.

I think it&#039;s very important to show empathy to those who&#039;ve lost jobs and do what we can to help each other out.  It is one of the most depressing feelings in the world, and it&#039;s not right downplay their efforts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ashley &#8211; Do you think if your friend had a choice of working for more money or being unemployed, she&#8217;d still choose unemployment?  I don&#8217;t think so.</p>
<p>They may outwardly show &#8220;fun&#8221; and &#8220;joy&#8221;, but I bet that&#8217;s more of them trying to make the best of the situation, and not purposefully trying to &#8220;game&#8221; the system.</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s very important to show empathy to those who&#8217;ve lost jobs and do what we can to help each other out.  It is one of the most depressing feelings in the world, and it&#8217;s not right downplay their efforts.</p>
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		<title>By: Len Penzo</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id793-its-time-unemployed-people-start-working-for-free.html#comment-1098</link>
		<dc:creator>Len Penzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=793#comment-1098</guid>
		<description>@Sam:  I appreciate where you are coming from, but I have a couple rebuttal comments...  :-)

First, I hate cliches but, regarding your reference to Citibank, two wrongs don&#039;t make a right.  That being said, as Ashley noted, my argument was towards the &quot;funemployed&quot; - not those who are out there working everyday to find employment.  

Second, while I believe it is important to show empathy to those who&#039;ve lost jobs, we should also realize that there are plenty of people out there who simply decide to take advantage of the system and milk it.

Think about it, many people when given the chance to earn $15.00 per hour working at a job they are not too enamored with, ultimately opt to pass on the job in order to keep receiving the $11.88 per hour they are getting from their unemployment checks.  Why?  Because consciously or subconsciously, they weigh the opportunity cost of not working vs working and decide the additional $3.12 isn&#039;t worth it.  

While I can see the logic behind such a decision, I believe it is simply not fair to the taxpayers when the &quot;funemployed&quot; choose to continue to take the checks while spending most of the day at Huntington Beach, rather than spending 40 hours per week wearing out shoe leather and looking for a better paying job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sam:  I appreciate where you are coming from, but I have a couple rebuttal comments&#8230;  <img src='http://lenpenzo.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>First, I hate cliches but, regarding your reference to Citibank, two wrongs don&#8217;t make a right.  That being said, as Ashley noted, my argument was towards the &#8220;funemployed&#8221; &#8211; not those who are out there working everyday to find employment.  </p>
<p>Second, while I believe it is important to show empathy to those who&#8217;ve lost jobs, we should also realize that there are plenty of people out there who simply decide to take advantage of the system and milk it.</p>
<p>Think about it, many people when given the chance to earn $15.00 per hour working at a job they are not too enamored with, ultimately opt to pass on the job in order to keep receiving the $11.88 per hour they are getting from their unemployment checks.  Why?  Because consciously or subconsciously, they weigh the opportunity cost of not working vs working and decide the additional $3.12 isn&#8217;t worth it.  </p>
<p>While I can see the logic behind such a decision, I believe it is simply not fair to the taxpayers when the &#8220;funemployed&#8221; choose to continue to take the checks while spending most of the day at Huntington Beach, rather than spending 40 hours per week wearing out shoe leather and looking for a better paying job.</p>
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		<title>By: Financial Samurai</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id793-its-time-unemployed-people-start-working-for-free.html#comment-1099</link>
		<dc:creator>Financial Samurai</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=793#comment-1099</guid>
		<description>Len -  Sorry, but I don&#039;t agree.  I think if you ever go to the unemployment office, you&#039;ll see plenty of people eagerly searching to work.  There may be those who are trying to &quot;milk it&quot;, but things always come to an end anyway.    

It&#039;s easy to be in a position to admonish others if you have a job, but it&#039;s a different story altogether when you&#039;re on the other side.  

When we are working, we pay into unemployment benefits/insurance with every pay check.  Why shouldn&#039;t we receive our unemployment checks when we need it the most?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Len &#8211;  Sorry, but I don&#8217;t agree.  I think if you ever go to the unemployment office, you&#8217;ll see plenty of people eagerly searching to work.  There may be those who are trying to &#8220;milk it&#8221;, but things always come to an end anyway.    </p>
<p>It&#8217;s easy to be in a position to admonish others if you have a job, but it&#8217;s a different story altogether when you&#8217;re on the other side.  </p>
<p>When we are working, we pay into unemployment benefits/insurance with every pay check.  Why shouldn&#8217;t we receive our unemployment checks when we need it the most?</p>
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		<title>By: Len Penzo</title>
		<link>http://lenpenzo.com/blog/id793-its-time-unemployed-people-start-working-for-free.html#comment-1100</link>
		<dc:creator>Len Penzo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Apr 2011 20:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lenpenzo.com/blog/?p=793#comment-1100</guid>
		<description>Sam:  Employees do not make ANY contributions towards unemployment insurance - the employer bears the entire cost.  :-)

So let me understand your argument: are you saying it is okay to &quot;milk&quot; the system since the benefits being paid out are only temporary?

I also don&#039;t believe the fact that the unemployed are in a disadvantaged position invalidates my argument, does it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam:  Employees do not make ANY contributions towards unemployment insurance &#8211; the employer bears the entire cost.  <img src='http://lenpenzo.com/blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>So let me understand your argument: are you saying it is okay to &#8220;milk&#8221; the system since the benefits being paid out are only temporary?</p>
<p>I also don&#8217;t believe the fact that the unemployed are in a disadvantaged position invalidates my argument, does it?</p>
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